Comments on: The Return Of Dukakis

By: Kroov Hamuts

Kroov Hamuts — Fri, 15 Sep 2006 07:44:23 +0000

Realy? That’s 28836 crazy!!

By: Jay Reding

Jay Reding — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 20:46:05 +0000

MoveOn isn't a 527? Well, that would be news to them.

By: Alex

Alex — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 20:32:08 +0000

Slow down everbody – I sometimes forget the remarkable amount of passion any discussion of Vietnam still provokes, and perhaps rightly so. I have a tremendous amount of respect for my father’s service in Vietnam, and according to him, the boy he killed may or may not have been a combatant. As several have commented, this was one of the disturbing features of the war in Vietnam. None of this changes the fact that a child was killed, something I think we’re all accountable for, whether we participated in the war or not. But regardless of my respect for the men and women who served in uniform then and who still do so now, I reserve my right and affirm my responsibility as an American citizen to criticize the actions of my government and those who act on its behalf. Atrocities were committed in Vietnam on both sides. Atrocities continue to be committed today, all over the world. We have a solemn duty as citizens of the most powerful and most respected democracy in the world to hold our country accountable to the lofty content of our creeds. I have never understood why some equate criticism with treason. As far as I can tell, when we criticize the United States we are in fact living up to our most patriotic ideal.

By: Andy

Andy — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 19:52:30 +0000

Unless I’m mistaken, MoveOn.org is a 527 group, in that they air commercials that are legal due to that particular clause of Campaign Finance Reform.

By: Chet

Chet — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 19:32:05 +0000

Arguing with someone who wants to invent conspiracy stories is pointless.

Oh, for god’s sake.

I find it very significant that you have nothing to bring to your own website besides ad hominem attacks against people who actually bother to look at the data.

Hell, who needs truth when barbed cliches will serve, right Jay?

By: Jay Reding

Jay Reding — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 19:26:44 +0000

Don’t bother with Chet. He didn’t just drink the Kool-Aid, he downed the pitcher. Arguing with someone who wants to invent conspiracy stories is pointless.

By: Chet

Chet — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 19:14:45 +0000

Would it be like trying to invalidate military votes or only doing recounts in counties that favor a particular party?

Did they do those things in secret, like the voter purges, or did they advocate those things in public?

Would those things have been against the law, like the voter purges were? Or wasn’t it the case that the military votes arrived after the election deadlines?

Ok, I looked at your link. I see some tenuous connections between people in the DNC that nobody’s ever heard of and some 527’s that nobody’s ever heard of. I’m not really impressed. Oh, and you should know that MoveOn.org isn’t a 527.

By: John Davies

John Davies — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 19:06:08 +0000

Took me awhile but here is a good link on connections between the Kerry campaign and 527s

http://www.blogsforbush.com/mt/archives/001811.html

You probably

Oh I understand a conspiracy now. Would it be like trying to invalidate military votes or only doing recounts in counties that favor a particular party?

By: Chet

Chet — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 18:27:47 +0000

What I enjoy most is that the Swift Boaters don’t criticize the truthfulness of Kerry’s testimony to Congress; they simply mention how deeply their feelings were hurt.

Get over it, guys.

By: Chet

Chet — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 18:26:33 +0000

First, people in this conspiracy would move freely between 527s and the DNC.

Who exactly are you talking about here, out of curiosity?

Any other ideas on how a left-wing conspiracy should be run?

None of what you mentioned sounds like a conspiracy, though.

It sounds like people with access to the media engaging in free speech.

A conspiracy would be something like making sure 90,000 minority voters in Florida were wrongfully stricken from the voting rolls. A conspiracy would be more arrests in New York in one day of the RNC than any other day in New York history (and holding those people well beyond the time allowed by law.) In other words a conspiracy is using the machinery of government to eliminate dissent.

People get to speak their minds about which candidate they support; some people get to speak their minds on TV. That’s not indicative of a conspiracy unless you’re an idiot.

By: jag

jag — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 18:22:20 +0000

Alex,

I’m sorry your dad suffers. However, for those who wheren’t around back then, the Viet Cong often used children and women to smuggle weapons and carry bombs. This doesn’t excuse any criminal acts by our soldiers but when a murderous enemy could, literally, be anyone you encounter it is quite a bit different than conventional warfare.

By: recon

recon — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 17:51:17 +0000

This comes from http://www.blackfive.net

As a fellow vet and paratrooper, gotta agree with this one:

How liberals do defy the mind
For nothing in theirs’ can we find,
That willingly will look with reason
At how their man committed treason,
Skulked off to Paris this effete
To grovel at the Madame’s feet,
Betraying his sworn officer’s oath
To become the turncoat we so loathe.

Our law is clear you shall not treat
With America’s foes nor their cadres meet;
Give aid nor comfort to enemy forces
Nor espouse a view from hostile sources.

Without a mandate from the state
Wherefrom your right to negotiate?
Was treason, John, and is treason still
To this very day your unpaid bill.

Don’t try to hide behind your youth.
You knew the law you knew the truth.
You knew your faux negotiation
Would further tear our war-torn nation

And all for what, John, your career
So you can shameless brazen here,
And claim now that you’re fit to lead
The very nation you made bleed?

And yet before us there you stand
With medals blazing you demand
Such treachery we must ignore
Your treason that lost us our war.

But hold on, John, we veterans say,
You had your turn, now comes our day.
You thought we slept, forgot your crime?
Oh no, John boy, it’s come our time.

Some say let you apologize
But that won’t do it in our eyes.
A man astride of each position
Could we believe your true contrition?

The vindication we’ll accept
In settling up this long-held debt,
Is each of us will do his best
To deny you, John, your lifelong quest.

Listen carefully John to what we say,
November 2nd is Veterans’ Day.

Russ Vaughn
2d Bn, 327th Parachute Infantry Regiment
101st Airborne Division
Vietnam 65-66

By: John Davies

John Davies — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 17:46:13 +0000

I thought that I asked an intelligent question about why there isn’t a left wing conspiracy. Instead I am accused of repeating arguments.

So let me hypothesize on what I would consider a left wing conspiracy to look like.

First, people in this conspiracy would move freely between 527s and the DNC. The media would not mention this. Leftist performers would put on a tour within the 60 day limit for window that McCain-Feingold put in place for ad blackouts. These concerts should be couched in get out the vote language but the performers should spend their time on stage letting the fans know who they should vote for.

Also, the conspiracy would have performers on talk shows bring up their choice for president while insulting the current president.

Any other ideas on how a left-wing conspiracy should be run?

By: James_BKK

James_BKK — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 16:59:45 +0000

Mark,

Three cheers for the good blokes that have provided the wealth for us to take this day off!

For organized labor, may the dues one day be spent on something other than electing democrats and may the taxes – well – not be taxed (except for the essentials), and the earnings remain with its members. The same goes for the rest (as applicable).

By: one-mad-marine

one-mad-marine — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 16:57:26 +0000

M. Simon,

REMEMBER, Veterans Day falls on November 2d this year.

Let’s all give John F*ing Kerry a gift he’ll never forget.

By: one-mad-marine

one-mad-marine — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 16:55:03 +0000

Alex, your father deserves credit for his service, but you deserve nothing for spouting what you don’t know anything about.

You might have just been born. You never saw what happened. You didn’t get spit on and called every name in the book, but I and many others did.

If you weren’t part of it, you can spout all you want, but you sound more ignorant and stupid with every stinking Demo sound bite you utter.

By the way, most vets would give more than you know to have Kerry, Fonda and Hayden within arms’ length. The result would not be pretty.

To call them anything positive displays your abject ignorance.

Our Federal laws provide for imprisonment or execution for treason conducted during war. John Kerry, Jane Fonad and Tom Hayden among many others committed treason, bragged about it and flaunted it at the nation. We execute spies for less.

Why do they deserve anything less than what the law provides for?

By: Trippin

Trippin — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 16:54:54 +0000

Alex,

If your dad shot a child deliberately then he is a murderer. Period. Circumstances, location, nationality, religion, all those things are irrelevant. Whether it be in uniform or out of uniform, in Vietnam or in the US (or on the Moon), whether the killer is American, Vietnamese or Arab. It doesn’t matter.

By: Burt

Burt — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 16:33:58 +0000

If Al Gore had realized the internet would be used like this, would he still have created it?

By: bill

bill — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 16:16:54 +0000

Alex, your father’s story is of course disturbing, but before I convince him of a CRIME I would like to know whether he deliberately shot an unarmed ten year old boy. His regret and remorse leads me to doubt it. No doubt war crimes were committed, but I am unready to believe that your father had the conscious intention to shoot and unarmed ten year old. That he did apparantly made him feel like a criminal, but I say, so far, not guilty, or at least not proven. And of course, generalization from a single case says nothing about the behavior of other troops, particularly since most of the winter soldier stories remain unproven themselves and in some cases clearly disproven. Of course I’m in no position to know, but just from what you’ve said I believe your father feels like a criminal but is unlikely to actually be one.

By: Chet

Chet — Mon, 06 Sep 2004 16:02:41 +0000

I’m glad you right-wing guys have nothing to offer but personal attacks. It relieves me of the duty of having to refute any sort of substantial argument.

Now, could one of you guys explain why Bush isn’t running on his record? Why his website has more pictures of Kerry than of Bush?

What is it about Bush’s record that he feels the need to run from? Oh, right – it’s a record of miserable failure.