Atrios provides a perfect example of the anti-Catholic bias in the fight over the nomination of William Pryor to the federal court system. What Atrios argues is that opposition to abortion is synonymous with opposition to women’s sufferage, and that the Catholic faith is somehow so dangerous that Catholics simply don’t belong in government.
There is no other term for such a reprehenisible position than anti-religious bias. Atrios’ example does not reflect Pryor’s real positions, as Pryor has been commended by the American Bar Association, and Pryor has a history of being a fair, honest, and impartial judge.
The radical left’s assault on Bush’s judicial nominations are based on a prejudice no more sick and morally reprehensible than anti-Semitism or Apartheid. Senate Democrats might as well hang a sign that read "No Christians Need Apply" in all government buildings – after all, anyone with strong religious beliefs clear doesn’t belong in government by their own arguments.
The irony here is that Catholics are a consistently strong Democratic constituency. Apparently Catholic voters, myself included, don’t perceive ourselves as the victims of an oppressive left-wing fighting to keep us on the other side of the drawbridge from the godless legislative class.
The irony here is that Catholics are a consistently strong Democratic constituency.
Here’s the irony:
the GOP realizes that any blue-collar worker foolish enough to vote for them after the relentless 20-plus years of financial genocide waged by Republicans against working people will be loyal GOP disciples no matter how much abuse is doled out on their behalf.
Change GOP to “Democratic Party”, “blue-collar worker” to “Catholic” and “financial genocide” to “anti-Catholicism”
Considering that Tom Daschle himself is a Catholic, this is a rather strange conversation…
Tom Daschle is Catholic in name only.
Now, Jay, how do you know that?
Nicholas
“By their fruits, ye shall know them.”
Matthew 7:15-20.
“Yes, and because he doesn’t obey a few silly moral prescriptions handed down by a clergy that’s out of touch with modern society, he’s not a Catholic?”
Self-parody is always the funniest kind.
Jay: “What Atrios argues is that opposition to abortion is synonymous with opposition to women’s sufferage,…”
Atrios: “Church doctrine of my particular religion clearly came down against women’s suffrage…”
No, he said the Church doctrine was against sufferege.
Of your many deceptions, one of the clumsier ones.
He’s making the comparison between his hypothetical religion and the Catholic opposition to abortion. The comparison is not stated, but is nevertheless obvious.
I’ve always been intrigued with Catholicism. Its social conservatism is balanced with a commitment to assisting the people who they’re preaching at, which stands in sharp contrast to the perverse individualist ethic embraced by other Religious Right types who want to dictate lifestyle mandates and then take the mop and scrub bucket home without cleaning up the mess they created. I know in my southern Minnesota diocese, their monthly publication rivals The Daily Worker in terms of left-wing propaganda on all issues unrelated to abortion and a small faction of other morality concerns.
With that said, there is a huge disparity among Catholics, even in Minnesota. Irish Catholics are strongly Democrat, both in MN and nationwide. The two most Catholic states in the union are Massachusetts and Rhode Island, both Irish Catholic and the two most Democratic states in the union. Irish Catholic towns in Minnesota almost always go Democrat by a 2-1 basis. Austin, Benson, Madelia and Adrian are a few examples. On the other hand, German Catholics are as Republican as Irish Catholics are Democrat. This is the case in eastern Wisconsin and Minnesota towns like Sleepy Eye, Cold Spring, and Albany. Of course, Puerto Rican, Mexican and Italian Catholics are stronger for Democrats than the Irish Catholics, while the French Catholics common in Louisiana tend to lean Republican, but not as heavily as the German Catholics.
With such a disparity of values, Jay’s assessment of Tom Daschle being “Catholic in name only” displays his ignorance and his cookie-cutter worldview. The fact is, most Catholics are closer to Tom Daschle’s politics than they are to William Pryor’s. If you don’t believe me, read The Courier publication from the Diocese of Winona and see how many friends you have.
Most American Catholics, aren’t.
Mark
Spoons, the facts prove your baseless wishful thinking incorrect. Voting patterns consistently show that Catholics are Democrats.
Jay,
Are you talking about anti-Catholic bias or anti-religious bias. You mention both and don’t differentiate. Nativist parties were anti-Catholic, but not anti-religious. The Demos are against a set of beliefs held by Catholics (and not all self-identified Catholics at that), Protestants, and Jews. Pryor’s record aside from his religious beliefs is egregious enough for him to be rejected out of hand. Bush couldn’t find anyone a little more moderate than Pryor? Come on.
“Self-parody is always the funniest kind.”
What parody?
Anyway, this whole conversation is bunk to begin with. I don’t want Christianity in politics any more than I want Marxism in politics. And I find it funny that people roundly condemn Marxism and it’s 100 years of faliure, yet don’t bother to condemn Christianity and it’s 2000 years of faliure. I wouldn’t want 100 Democrats or 100 Republicans in the Senate, but I wouldn’t mind 100 atheists.
ttam: Pryor’s record is anything but extreme. His record as Alabama Attorney General shows that he is a fair judge and perfectly suited to the federal appeals court. His record in regards to civil rights is impressive, and there is nothing in his record that supports the idea that Pryor is an extremist.
“By their fruits, ye shall know them.”
Matthew 7:15-20.
Spoons, you may wish to get on Google and look up “The True Scotsman Fallacy”. You’ve just committed it.
Nicholas, good point. The current status of the Catholic church is only slightly better than the current status of Marxist philosophy prevalence on the globe. My guess is there will still be a skeleton of Communism long after the Catholic church’s wildly out-of-touch bureaucracy strangles itself to death.
Chet: That’s not logically consistant with the terms of the Catholic faith. It’s not some arbitrary distinction of what constitutes a "true Scotsman" or a "true Catholic", but a set of criteria from the hierarchy of the Catholic Church that determine’s one’s Catholicism.
Catholicism is a doctrinal religion, meaning that one cannot just call oneself Catholic. If you’re not confirmed, you’re not technically Catholic. If you don’t follow the rules, the Church has the right to excommunicate you. (Which is essentially what
was done with Tom Daschle – an event which was met with a non-denial by both Daschle and the Sioux Falls Archdiocese.)
Sen. Daschle does not follow the doctrines of the Catholic Church in creating policy, and he has been admonished for not acting in accordance with the Catholic faith. The Catholic Church has every right as a religious organization to determine their membership, and members of that organization have the right to enforce those rules.
In the case of Pryor, Pryor’s Catholicism also teaches that a moral person most uphold the law (read City of God by St. Augustine for the theological background of this). Pryor may believe that Roe v. Wade is immoral, but his record shows that does not mean that he is unfit for the federal appeals court. (In fact, one can make a perfectly legalistic argument divorced from any religious context that would find Roe v. Wade to be an unconstitutional extension of federal power.)
Well I might have supported your argument, Jay, however you made the most greivous error of stating that he was from Alabama.
Right. He’s disqualified. Next. 🙂
I recall the controversy over the status of Daschle’s Catholocism a few months ago. Daschle was not excommunicated.
And, where doesn’t he follow Catholic doctrine in creating policy, other than on abortion?
While this one case might be an example of anti-catholic bias, most of it is non-existant. Most of the people in this country that create books and films that the Romish overlords find to offensive are catholics or ex-catholic themselves. While Rome would like to try to create the myth of some sort of DC orchestrated protestant ascendancy, truth does not back it up. Then again it is increasingly rare when the terms truth and the vatican can be used in the same sentence. I oppose the treatment of Pryor as does any reasonble minded american, but I refuse to extrapilate this into something bigger. The Eastern Seaboard ain’t East Belfast!!
Though Catholicism may hold that a moral person must uphold the Law, Cathlocism acknowledges the Bible which says (Romans 3) that the law was made to show man how sinful he is. There is no man who is able to meet the requirements of the law Christian or not and that is why redemption in Christ is neccesary in the first place. It is a ridiculous argument to say the man is not a Catholic based merely on moral failure.